Link dump

Friday, February 03, 2006

Because of freedom you can insult me

I really bewildered when i see these paradoxes. if newspaper reprint these offensive cartoons about PROPHET MOHAMMAD for insisting that they have freedom of speech so could you in comments put a link to a newspaper that printed an offensive cartoon about Jesus ?
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Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons
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Update: when i saw attack to embassy of Denmark in Damascus i said to myself i am sure such action never happen in Iran. but today when i saw people climbed form wall of Denmark embassy i really embarrassed .

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Be my guest:

http://www.newhumanist.org.uk/volume117issue4_more.php?id=192_0_9_0_C

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1443861,00.html

http://www.karikatur-cartoon.de/cartoons/cartoons63_gott.html

So long...

Ali M said...

http://thetravisty.com/Family_Guy/wmv/Jesus_Christ.htm

You don't have to look very far. First page of google and you have a cartoon showing Jesus as a nut case.

My poor fellow countryman you have a lot to learn on the freedom of speech and the separation of the church and the state. But again it is not your fault, you leave in a Theocracy and you have never seen anything else.

Anonymous said...

Oh, they don’t leave Christians out of the mix. There is a pretty bizarre adult cartoon on some TV channel in the evenings. It’s called South Park. We’ve watched it few times out of coincidence.

They REALLY tore apart the Catholics and the Mormons. Then they went after Scientology. In that one, I think they really slammed Tom Cruise and maybe (I think) John Travolta.

The Catholics pretty much took it in stride and probably laughed at it too. When we saw them rip the Mormons (a flavor of Christian) we figured the whole state of Utah would descend on the producers of the show. But as far as I know, nothing happened.

Maybe they’ll do Buddhists next. I doubt they’d do Islam because that’s so Politically Incorrect. They probably won’t do Pagans either because there’s not enough of them to offend.

In our world it’s no use getting offended. We have a right to practice any religion we wish and no one can stop us. But we are not guaranteed people won’t make fun of us.

In fact, I get demeaned, harassed and looked down upon just because I say I believe in Jesus. They have the right to their opinion. But I don’t have to value their opinion. I can laugh right back at them for not believing what I believe.

KM said...

I agree the freedom of speech defense is a weak one. After all, the demonstrators aren't angry because the newspapers didn't censor the artists. They are angry that the newspapers published something they knew to be insulting and disrespectful to Muslims.

Since Christ apparently didn't mind having his picture taken, his likeness appearing in political cartoons isn't by itself offensive to Christians.

A quick google search dug up a few...here's one from Harpers...(sorry - dont know how to make it a link)

http://www.harpers.org/art/cartoons/mrfish/JesusPiggy_350x424.jpg

Anonymous said...

Hello.
I am an American woman. I would never insult you. I have not read all of your words, but I must say that your English is not bad. It is quite good, but does need a little practice.
We here in America do things differently. I do not know if you are in America or not. If you were here, then you would know that all papers in all the democratic countries draw insulting cartoons all the time, and we get angry, and then we vote people out of office. Over 200 years ago in our country, they were doing cartoons. We had slaves in our country, and because some of the people did not want our president to free them, they shot and killed him. His name was Lincoln. People hated him. Others loved him. They made cartoons about him. That was about 150 years ago.
About ten years ago when Clinton was president, we all paid taxes to a person and he took the symbol of our God and put it in a bucket of urine (pee-pee). We all hated it, and we voted him out of office. He is hated by mostly everyone here in America.
We want you to be free to become a man to study in the best Universities in the world, travel where you want, marry who you want, practice Islam, and pray to Alla where ever you wish. That is the American way. All people are free here. We want your people to be happy and free. No dictatorship or war. We Love President Bush and We all hate war. Bush hates war. No matter what you read, and no matter what anyone tells you. We love our country, and we love Bush and we hate war. President Bush wants you to say no to your president. We do not want your people to be on strike and get hurt. Here in America, you are not punished for going on strike. Listen to America. We love Iraq. We are sending our babies to die for you and Afganistan and raq. The Holocost did happen.
Love, An American Mother.
God is Great.
God Bless you all, always

Stefan said...

It give cartoons against Jesus. If you have someone which can translate german: http://www.cartoonmuseum.ch/AUSSTELLUNGEN/RUECKBLICK/haderer/interview.html
A discussion (2002) started in Austria because cartoons against Jesus. The people felt very bad about his cartoons. The difference is just the kind to answer. It was not so dangerous as the reaction from the muslim world. But the basic ideas are exactly the same.

The cartoon in a book described Jesus as drug smoking junkie. Which like to surf through the ocean. (In the bible Jesus walked over water.)

A other group made a theater which described Jesus as guy. Which was together with his boyfriends and drunk to much wine. - It gave protest too.

But for you to understand what happend in Europe. At first nobody was interested to this pictures. As the muslim world start his action, the people asked which cartoon is it. And in a free society everyone have the right to know what happend and the news show sometimes one picture. Not to show a bad picture against muslims, just to show about which pictures give it this discussion.

And the religios christian europe start to fight for the muslim. They know how bad this cartoons are. The pope in Rome said, we live in a free society, but we have to respect religios feelings. He remember many bad cartoons about the christian religion.

I think. Don´t accept what happened, but play a fair game. God hate crime against persons and things. Protest is good. Fire and disturbing is bad.

Stefan said...

http://www.mehr-freiheit-wagen.de/
(The name from this blog: venture more freedom)

You find here the cartoon which I described. If you scroll down you find Jesus as naked gay surfing on the water.

And a joke from this side.
A arab, a german and a french sit in a coffeeshop. A beautiful woman appear. The arab say, by Allah. The german whisper, by god. The french say, by me to home - this night.

Or a other joke: You have to know, the most christian churches say, Jesus have a virgin as mother.

Jesus walked through a crying group from people. On the ground lay a woman. Everybody cried: Stone the sinner. Stone the sinner.
Jesus: "Be quiet. The person which is without sins throw the first stone." (This is from the bible and finish that everybody stopped crying. And everybody went home.)Than flew a stone against the head from this woman. Jesus turned nervy and cried: "Mother, that´s not your job."

I didn´t like this jokes.

Keith Stiles said...

Thank you for your insight and words from Iran. I think this kind of forum is neccessary for people of the world to learn and understand each other.
I believe these cartoons are in bad taste, this is for sure. And I believe muslim people are truthfully upset by them. However, in free societies where freedom of speech is a corner stone of that freedom, you can not censor the press. Many things are said in a free speech society that others don't like, but then we have a right to express ourselves in return. If it's a politician, we express it in not voting for him or her, if it's a newspaper then we choose not to read it in the future, if it's a tv news program we turned the t.v. off. What we don't do is commit voilent acts with the purpose harming others property or harming other people. This is unacceptable behavior. This can not be tolerated.

Anonymous said...

"Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons"

Silly Danes! I REALLY wish they would have gone ahead and printed them.

Then we would have a metric by measuring the offended parties behavior.

All this outrage being exhibited reminds me of a fiction book I once read called Dune.

Anybody else remember that one>

Stefan said...

No matter if it happen in Iran too. I think it´s not a question from the iranian people and it´s not a question from syrian people.

It look like a small group which like to speak for all people. They wait for every chance to bring their hate in the world.

For me give it one main question. Why cover the state not the embassy? That is the job from every state. Is it a controlled work and hate from some states and organisations?

Anonymous said...

Don't be embarrassed Yasser. I have no doubt those protestors in Tehran were incited and supported by the mullahs. They don't represent you or the Iranian people.

Chas said...

Yasser, Welcome from Texas, USA! You may know it already, but your update was printed in the Dallas Morning News, newspaper of Dallas TX and was read by 1 million Americans!
It has messages from the muslim world blogs. Congrats!

Stefan said...

Sorry, if I publish again. It´s just interesting what happened in Egypt:

This are pictures which I found in the internet:
Not sharp but good to read. The newspaper is from the 17th October 2005
http://www.stefan-herre.de/alfagerdateright.jpg

Here the main page from Al Fagar fom the 17th October 2005

http://www.stefan-herre.de/alfagerfrontpageright.jpg
The arabian word advice you to look to a special repotage on the 3rd
page...

And here the whole story on page 17 in large pictures:
http://www.stefan-herre.de/alfagerpage17right.3.jpg
Six from the 12 Mohammed-cartoons in the page 17
http://www.stefan-herre.de/alfagereditorchiefright.1.jpg
The chief journalist was proud to be the first which showed this cartoons in arab language.

The name Stefan is not from me. I am just from Germany too.

sean kenny said...

Hello there

My name is Sean Kenny and I’m an English journalist. I am writing an article on Iranian bloggers and I would like to interview you for the piece.

The article is for Salon, a liberal American magazine (www.salon.com), and the interview would be done via email (unless you wanted me to telephone you, that is perfectly possible).

The article will look at how the views of ordinary Iranians are very different to the image of Iran in the West. I would ask questions about your views on: the cartoons controversy, Iran’s nuclear weapons, what is going on in Iraq, what you think of the West/America.
I’m also interested in trying to give readers your views on daily life in Iran – what are your biggest problems, fears, etc.

Would you be interested in taking part? Obviously you would be completely anonymous and you can give a false name.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes,

Sean Kenny

sean_kenny at yahoo.co.uk

PS. Your English is actually pretty good!

Anonymous said...

What passes for moderation in the Islamic community -- "I share your rage but don't torch that embassy" -- is nothing of the sort. It is simply a cynical way to endorse the goals of the mob without endorsing its means. It is fraudulent because, while pretending to uphold the principle of religious sensitivity, it is interested only in this instance of religious insensitivity.

Have any of these "moderates" ever protested the grotesque caricatures of Christians and, most especially, Jews that are broadcast throughout the Middle East on a daily basis? …

A true Muslim moderate is one who protests desecrations of all faiths. Those who don't are not moderates but hypocrites, opportunists and agents for the rioters, merely using different means to advance the same goal: to impose upon the West, with its traditions of freedom of speech, a set of taboos that is exclusive to the Islamic faith.

The mob is trying to dictate to Western newspapers, indeed Western governments, what is a legitimate subject for discussion and caricatureThe point is who decides what can be said and what can be drawn within the precincts of what we quaintly think of as the free world.

The mob has turned this into a test case for freedom of speech in the West. The German, French and Italian newspapers that republished these cartoons did so not to inform but to defy -- to declare that they will not be intimidated by the mob.

What is at issue is fear. The unspoken reason many newspapers do not want to republish is not sensitivity but simple fear. They know what happened to Theo van Gogh, who made a film about the Islamic treatment of women and got a knife through the chest with an Islamist manifesto attached.

The worldwide riots and burnings are instruments of intimidation, reminders of van Gogh's fate. The Islamic "moderates" are the mob's agents and interpreters, warning us not to do this again. And the Western "moderates" are their terrified collaborators who say: Don't worry, we won't. It's those Danes. We're clean. Spare us. Please.

Stefan said...

Hi Yasser,

this is just a information to the cartoons. I found this advertisement in a german webpage on 19th March.
http://www.shirtcity.com/shop/00000000000005b000ce3e450000005169261e43/set_sdw/True/datei/designer/produkt/tsj/farbe/40
Really terrible, but you see this kind of cartoons is not against the islam. You find it against the christian church too.

Stefan said...

http://www.shirtcity.com/shop/00000000000005b000ce3e450000005169261e43/set_sdw/True/datei/designer/produkt/tsj/farbe/40

The full link again.

Anonymous said...

The anonymous "American Mother" has a terrible grasp of English as well as of facts. Firstly, Clinton did not get voted out of office, US presidents are only allowed 2 terms in office. He had nothing to do with "Piss Christ", it was a decision by an arts committee. Secondly, not all Americans love President Bush. Quite a few think he's an idiot. We don't want war - with Iran or anyone.

Anonymous said...

I must agree with the above comment. Not all Americans love Mr. Bush. In fact, only 39% approve of his current overall job - hardly a mandate from the people. (56% disapprove) I would like to further point out that this isn't even an "I love President Bush" poll, it is simply an approval rating, and, as even more polls reflect, it is a tacit approval, at that.
On a side note, Yasser, I really must compliment you on your choice of literature; you can never go wrong when you're reading George Orwell. Thank you so much for providing us with this window of insight into your world!
Best wishes,
Missy in Chicago